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Gushing edit revert in an article Videogame
Recently, I cleaned up gushing in multiple articles discussed in this thread
. One of them, VideoGame.Street Fighter II, was reverted by an editor who added back the gushing and claimed "no agreement was ever reached" although I cited the thread in edit reason. I sent a DM pointing to the thread a week ago but there's no response. What's the next option?
Rewriting Walkthrough Mode Page Videogame
Here's the summary of Walkthrough Mode:
For example, let's say Alice adds the Puppy Stomper 3000 to That One Boss. Bob follows this up by stating, "Actually, the Puppy Stomper isn't tough if you have the Ring of Puppy Protection, which only requires you to do X, Y and Z." Then Clara comes by and adds, "To be fair, you need Sven in your party to use the Ring of Puppy Protection. It's easier to use the Stick of Puppy Protection, which only requires you to bring the Ring of Puppy Protection to the Ring Transumation Fairy in Scary Town."
Using the example from the above paragraph, here's what it looks like on a page.
- That One Boss: Puppy Stomper 3000 is hard because of blah blah.
- Actually, the Puppy Stomper isn't tough if you have the Ring of Puppy Protection, which only requires you to do X, Y and Z.
- To be fair, you need Sven in your party to use the Ring of Puppy Protection. It's easier to use the Stick of Puppy Protection, which only requires you to bring the Ring of Puppy Protection to the Ring Transumation Fairy in Scary Town.
- Actually, the Puppy Stomper isn't tough if you have the Ring of Puppy Protection, which only requires you to do X, Y and Z.
The first two paragraphs basically describe a videogame mechanics-themed version of Thread Mode, which... editors shouldn't do either, but if all the page has to say is "don't thread mode about game mechanics", it probably doesn't need to exist — just point to Thread Mode instead.
To my understanding, what Walkthrough Mode should tell readers is that they should avoid cluttering examples with numbers, niche mechanics, and long-winded guides that are only tangentially relevant to how there is an example of a trope — this is suggested to me by that last paragraph. Here's a version I think could work, which emphasizes that:
For example, let's say Alice lists the Puppy Stompertron as an example of That One Boss, engaging in Walkthrough Mode to do so:
- That One Boss: The Puppy Stompertron appears at the end of the Puppy Factory and presents a massive roadblock to the player. It's got a massive 70,000 HP health bar (by the end of the factory, you'll be dealing 300 DPS at best), has immunity to Bleed, Stun, Dizzy, Confuse, and Love, and all of its attacks are That One Attack. Puppy Squishing deals 10,000 damage and can only be survived with the Anti-Ten Thousand Medal from the Numbers Swamp, Puppy Flamethrowing is supposed to deal only 40 damage to the player once but a bug with the level geometry can cause the flames to deal 400 damage if the player's standing on the many hills around the arena, and the Dog Food Ingester will heal it back to full unless the player has done the sidequest to obtain Dog Food Poison, which is easily missable at the start of the game. The only thing that can make this easy is the Puppy Stompertron Control Device to cut its HP in half, which is only available to builds that use the Dagger of Air Vent Entry, a 37 Charisma build to take it from the Puppy Factory Foreman (you can't go with any other level of Charisma, he starts liking you too much if you do), or a glitched maximum Speed character to clip through the northeast locked door and access the room where it's stored.
As you can see, this entry is hard to read because it's loaded with tangents on whole-game strategies and numbers that mean nothing to an outsider, when all that's needed is to explain how the Puppy Stompertron boss is harder than the rest of the game. Let's see an example that does just that:
- That One Boss: The Puppy Stompertron appears at the end of the Puppy Factory and presents a massive roadblock to the player. It has massive HP for that point at the game, immunity to many of the useful status effects, and all of its attacks are That One Attack — dealing massive damage or healing itself to full. The only ways to get past it painlessly involve highly-specific strategies and/or exploiting glitches, neither of which are available to every character class.
This entry is much more succinct in stating why the Puppy Stompertron is an example of That One Boss: it has high stats, immunity to statuses, powerful attacks, and the mechanics to make it easier aren't universally applicable. By cutting out details, the example becomes easier to read and digestible, yet the non-Walkthrough Mode entry still manages to communicate key points on why the Puppy Stompertron is this trope.
As a side bonus, when talking about games that are receiving post-launch updates, avoiding exact numbers gives a degree of futureproofing. In many games, if a change needs to be made, the numbers are usually first to be adjusted, so if the Puppy Stompertron ever has its HP or damage values changed this way, the example doesn't suddenly need an update to correct those parts.
While it is understandable why Walkthrough Mode happens, wiki articles are not walkthroughs for how to beat That One Boss or That One Level. Trope examples should be generic enough that those who aren't familiar with the game can understand them, and shouldn't be cluttered with something like the exact attack strength of a weapon or helpful asides about which two of the three Superbosses can be affected by the Game-Breaker. This isn't to say that you shouldn't list your example with little to no information, which is the opposite problem; you just need to explain why your example is that of the trope in question in a way that's digestible to the average reader.
See also Word Cruft, another writing element that makes examples bloated and indigestible by adding too many unnecessary words.
Does this look good to use on the page?
Edited by Pyhrrous
Edit war
- Sep 19: Michonne5 added Eloquent in My Native Tongue (receipt)
- Sep 20: I removed Eloquent in My Native Tongue, explaining that the character merely speaks a second language. It's not his native language, nor is there any indication he's particularly eloquent in it. (receipt)
- Sep 20: Michonne 5 added Eloquent in My Native Tongue back verbatim. (receipt)
Upon looking into the history log, I also found:
- Mar 21: Michonne5 added Eloquent in My Native Tongue (receipt)
- June 27: woerer1 removed it, also saying it's not his native language (receipt)
Edit warring is an offense separate from the legitimacy of the edit, but just to explain why the trope doesn't fit:
For a bit of context we're talking about House of the Dragon and the character listing for Aemond.
Eloquent in My Native Tongue's laconic: "They don't sound too intelligent in a foreign tongue, but they sound very smart when speaking their native language." It's about the contrast between someone's capabilities in two different languages — you can't talk about it in relation to just one language.
Michonne5 only mentions that Aemond speaks Valyrian. Not that he speaks it well or eloquently; not that he speaks another language poorly in contrast. Just that he speaks Valyrian at all. And as woerer1 and I point out, Valyrian isn't even his native language!
Edited by Eievie
Removing a re-added MemeticLoser entry
I?ve already brought this to the ?Memetic X Cleanup? thread, but since that thread hasn?t seen much use in the past month, I?ve decided to also bring this here in the hopes that this can get resolved quicker.
Yesterday I found this Memetic Loser entry on the YMMV Mortal Kombat 1 page:
- Kotal continues this trend too. His sole mention in the game's story mode is a line where he lost to Raiden offscreen.
I had previously removed this entry as, while he may have been a Memetic Loser in the previous game, not only was Kotal not the only character Raiden defeated offscreen (two other characters, Sheeva and Motaro, were also listed among those that Raiden had defeated offscreen and even then it?s stated that Raiden had also defeated many others besides them, those three were just the only ones to get name-dropped) but the fanbase itself has not singled out Kotal?s loss specifically, in fact this throwaway line has barely even been talked about by the fanbase at all thus far.
However I saw that someone has recently re-added and reworded the entry without an edit reason. As the person who removed it initially, I obviously think that the entry should be removed again for the reasons that I?ve described, especially since no reason was given for adding it back.
Edited by CorvusIX
messenger god
Is there a 'guide' for Moments entries?
I want to add certain examples to Moments like Tear Jerker, but I'm not sure if there's any special guidelines I need to follow. Any advice?
Weeaboo extraordinare
Cut a page with mostly poorly written examples? Literature
I was doing a wick check for If You Call Before Midnight Tonight and found this work page for a children's book. It's filled with zero-context and poorly written examples (including linking a useful note as a trope example on a work page which isn't allowed). I see only two passably written examples on the page. Should we just cut this page?
ADDENDUM: Also, *batteries not included isn't on the Useful Notes page.
Edited by supernintendo128
Should MK 1 characters have new folders on the MK 1 character page
So I recently tried to create new folders for the Kombat Kast for Mortal Kombat's reboot timeline, using precedent such as Soul Series, since virtually every character has a radically different history and/or personality to the point that their old character folders are incompatible
Futhermore these new incarnations of the characters are regarded by the lore of the story itself as being distinct entities (For example: original timeline Kitana has no continuity with New Era Kitana, instead existing as Titan Kitana who's a completely different character; all of Liu Kang's prior relationship with Kitana is only present when interacting with Titan Kitana)
I don't think there's a feasible alternative to creating new folders for all the characters on the New Era's character page. Trying to just slot them into their old folders is just a recipe for confusion and clutter. And the only other alternative is to create individual character pages for all the characters so we can put multiple folders on their pages for all their different incarnations, which is just needlessly messy and still confusing since we have situations like New Era Scorpion being Kuai Liang instead of Hanzo Hisashi
Plus I'm under the impression that TV tropes wants to avoid creating individual character pages where possible
Unfortunately someone reverted my attempt to create new folders on the Mortal Kombat 1 character page and I don't want to get into an edit war, so I'm bringing it to the ATT thread
I also brought up the matter on the Mortal Kombat Discussion thread, and the limited replies so far have been in agreement that the New Era should have it's own character folders as well
Edited by CrimsonOddball
Currently reading: Tristan by Gottfried von Strassburg
Edit War in Characters.FateGrandOrderBerserkersAToF Videogame
- Stralsun added a Ship Tease entry (with an incorrectly indented second bullet point, but I digress)
- Fireblitz 113 removed the second bullet point, stating it was misinformation as the edit reason.
- Stralsun added it again (and still incorrectly indented), claiming that it was deleted without a reason in their edit reason to justify the readdition, seeming to ignore Fireblitz's edit reason.
- Comun partially deleted part of the entry, stating that some of it was misinformation on the lines of Fireblitz's reason.
Persona 3 Reload Videogame
Should Persona 3 Reload be moved to a separate page to VideoGame.Persona 3?
I personally think it should, as the Persona 3 page already features tropes relating to the PS2 and PSP releases of the game. There?s already a need to specify between these different versions of the game, Reload is just going to make it more confusing.
EDIT as of September 21st: We now have more details about Reload that open this discussion up again.
Reload isn't a 1-to-1 remake of Persona 3, as it features a variety of new mechanics (Some previously introduced in Persona 5) and is expanding the storyline of Persona 3 by including new events with both party members and antagonists alike. On top of that, the two works are going to be released 18 years apart - from a purely logical standpoint, it makes sense to split Reload from the original version of the game to preserve the existing Persona 3 page as relating to the plot and mechanics of the original version of the game.
It is, at the very least, on par with the modern Resident Evil remakes, all of which have pages separate to the original games.
Edited by ChrisDV
Possible Square Peg, Round Trope Film
On Characters.Cool Cat Saves The Kids, I found some Politically Incorrect Hero entries with bits relating to the Coronavirus:
(emphasis added)
All politics aside, this feels like a case of Square Peg, Round Trope. The trope is about otherwise good characters who hold prejudiced, bigoted views, or at least act like they do. Unless that's involved in some way, I don't think a character's actions related to a disease qualify, no matter how controversial or potentially endangering they may be.
Nevertheless, I thought I might as well bring it up here, just in case there might be some nuances I'm missing. What do you guys think? Should these entries be edited to remove stuff related to the virus?
The slowest writer on the wiki
Transferring a fanfiction to the Darth wiki
I See What You Do Behind Closed Doors (Miraculous Ladybug) appears to have been removed from AO3 recently, and I have been unable to find other sites that have the work (including Wayback Machine).
I request permission to delete the page and send it to DarthWiki.Unpublished Works.
Question about Poison Oak WMG Videogame
I noticed on YMMV.Splatoon 3 that Poison Oak Epileptic Trees is on there, even though Main.Poison Oak Epileptic Trees is a redirect to WMG.Poison Oak Epileptic Trees when you click, implying it shouldn't be on trope pages.
It's on a couple other pages too, but not a lot: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/relatedsearch.php?term=Main/PoisonOakEpilepticTrees
Should it be removed since it's a WMG thing? (The Splatoon page, where I first noticed it, seems more like a case of Tainted by the Preview or pre-emptive story bashing.)
Edited by lalalei2001
"Contrasting Next Episode Antagonist"?
Can the Contrasting Sequel Antagonist trope fit in a series if the antagonists in question are one or several episodes apart? I've only seen examples of the trope being used in shows where they're one or more seasons apart, but I'm not sure if the other scenario could count as "Sequel".
BeastMan
Fic page deletion
I had a question regarding policy for deleting work pages. Specifically, I was wondering when and if the work being made unavailable for reading/viewing is considered a valid reason for taking down the associated page.
The specific reason I ask is that Fanfic.A Frozen Flower was deleted on the 19th — it's still visible on the cut list log — with the reason provided being "Story has been deleted by author." My understanding has previously been that a story being made publicly inaccessible is not usually considered a valid reason to remove a page unless other factors are also present, and going by the most recent Wayback Machine backup it seems to have been a perfectly decent page (the only issue I can see is some bad indentation). I haven't been able to find any further discussion on the topic, so I was wondering if something else was going on behind the scenes or there was some policy at play I was unaware of.
Karma Houdini
If a character dies getting what they exactly wanted are they still a Karma Houdini?
Say, Junko letting herself executed, Ragyo and Nui's death etc.
Edited by Mr-ex777
New Trope Idea
Hi, I'm fairly new to this, but I was wondering if TV Tropes was open to new trope ideas?
On hiatus from the forums till mid-October (he/him)
MaLady's barebones TRS OPs
MaLady's OPs on the TRS Queue continue to be bare-bones, with Ghostwriter not even having one. I originally wasn't gonna point this out since other people's OPs are usually not my business, but the straw that broke the camel's back for me was StellarName's OP, which contains an improperly formatted quote and no wick check wick to speak of. (To say nothing of CavalryOfTheDead's OP, whose wick check wick is a redlink.)
Needless to say, I believe this has gone on long enough. Something must be done, otherwise this pattern will continue.
Edited by JHD0919
He/Him
Fanmade translation policy
Lucky Star has a new spinoff manga that's been out for a few months now, it's called "Konata's Thirties" and it's about Konata and her friends as adults. As far as I can tell, there is no official translation for it, much less a licensed publisher in the US, but there is a fanmade translation for it online. I know that some works, like My Hero Academia, have a "wait until the official translation comes out" policy, so am I not allowed to trope about Konata's Thirties yet?
Question on cutlisting plagarised page
Recently, I ran across Recap.Lock Stock And Two Smoking Barrels, which was created by an editor who was suspended for large scale plagiarism and subsequently perma-banned for ban evasion several years ago. This article is one of many they copy/pasted wholesale from Wikipedia (it's only been edited once since then, with very minor tweaks to the wording).
However, the Wikipedia plot summary for the film has been heavily re-written in the four years since the Recap/ page was plagiarised from it. Should the page still be cut for consisting almost entirely of plagiarised content?